驻英国大使刘晓明就香港局势举行中外记者会实录
Ambassador Liu Xiaoming Holds a Press Conference on the Situation in Hong Kong
2019年8月15日，驻英国大使刘晓明在驻英使馆就香港问题举行中外记者会，针对近期发生在香港特别行政区的街头暴力激进活动不断升级阐明中方原则立场。英国广播公司（BBC）、BBC广播四台、独立电视台、天空新闻台、电视四台、《金融时报》、《每日电讯报》、《泰晤士报》、《卫报》、路透社等英国媒体，新华社、中央电视台、中国新闻社、中国环球电视网（CGTN）、《中国日报》、《经济日报》、《科技日报》、《光明日报》、《环球时报》等中国媒体，以及彭博社、美国有线电视新闻网（CNN）、今日俄罗斯电视台（RT）、加拿大广播公司、凤凰卫视资讯台、《欧洲时报》、《英中时报》、《侨报》等27家中外媒体50余名记者出席。记者会上还播放了揭露香港一小撮暴力激进分子违法犯罪丑恶行径的短片。记者会实录如下：
On 15th August 2019, H.E. Ambassador Liu Xiaoming held a press conference at the Chinese Embassy on the radical violence in Hong Kong which has escalated and caused severe damages. More than 50 journalists from 27 media agencies attended the press conference, including BBC, Radio 4, ITV, Sky News, Channel 4, Financial Times, The Daily Telegraph, The Times, Guardian, Reuters of the UK, China’s Xinhua News Agency, CCTV, China News Service, CGTN, China Daily, Economic Daily, Science and Technology Daily, Guangming Daily, and Global Times of China, and Bloomberg, CNN, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, Phoenix Infonews, European Times, and UK Chinese Times. The following is the transcript of the press conference.
刘大使：7月3日，我在使馆举办了一次中外记者会，介绍香港“修例”问题及中方立场。此后一个多月以来，香港反对派和一些激进势力继续借口“反修例”进行各种街头激进抗争活动，暴力化程度不断升级，社会波及面越来越广，完全超出自由集会与和平抗议范畴，严重挑战香港法治和社会秩序，严重威胁香港市民生命财产安全，严重破坏香港繁荣稳定，严重触碰“一国两制”原则底线，致使香港面临回归以来最严峻的局面。
Ambassador: On 3 July, I held a press conference here to answer questions about the amendments to Hong Kong’s extradition laws and to explain China’s position. For more than a month since then, the opposition in Hong Kong and some radical forces have continued to use their opposition to the amendments as an excuse for various types of radical street protests. The violence involved has escalated and the damage to the society has expanded. The movement has gone way beyond free assembly and peaceful protests. It is posing a severe challenge to law and order in Hong Kong, threatening the safety of life and property of the Hong Kong people, undermining the prosperity and stability in Hong Kong and challenging the principled bottom line of “One Country, Two Systems”. As a result, Hong Kong now faces the gravest situation since its handover.
一些极端激进分子在香港兴风作浪，打着所谓民主的幌子，掩盖其反法治、反社会、反“一国两制”的真实面目和险恶用心，是兼具欺骗性与破坏性的“新极端主义”。他们打砸立法会，冲击中联办，暴力袭击警员，在香港机场非法集结致使机场全面停止运营，已经构成严重暴力犯罪，开始出现恐怖主义的苗头。中国中央政府绝不会放任少数人以暴力行径把香港拖向危险的深渊，绝不允许任何人破坏香港的法治与良好发展局面，绝不允许任何人以任何借口破坏“一国两制”。如果香港局势进一步恶化，出现香港特区政府不能控制的动乱，中国中央政府绝不会坐视不管。按照《基本法》规定，中国中央政府有足够多的办法、足够强大的力量迅速平息可能出现的各种动乱。
A handful of extreme radicals have been undermining rule of law, social order and “One Country, Two Systems” in Hong Kong. But they have taken cover under the so-called “pro-democracy movement” to hide their real intention and to whitewash their disruptive actions. This “neo-extremism” is both highly deceptive and destructive. The “neo-extremists” stormed the Legislative Council Complex, attacked the Liaison Office of the Central People’s Government in Hong Kong, assaulted police officers and brought Hong Kong airport to a standstill by illegal assembly. Their moves are severe and violent offences, and already show signs of terrorism. The Central Government of China would never allow a few violent offenders to drag Hong Kong down a dangerous abyss. We would never allow anyone to harm the rule of law and sound development in Hong Kong. We would never allow anyone to undermine “One Country, Two Systems” at any excuse. Should the situation in Hong Kong deteriorate further into unrest uncontrollable for the Government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (SAR), the Central Government would not sit on its hands and watch. We have enough solutions and enough power within the limit of the Basic Law to quell any unrest swiftly.
当前，香港处于关键时刻。如何结束香港乱局？这是所有关心香港前途的人都在思考的问题，也是英国各大媒体头版头条和“封面文章”之问。我们的回答坚定而明确：我们希望香港事态平稳有序结束，同时我们做了最坏准备。如何实现香港事态平稳有序结束？我认为，以下四点至关重要：
This is a critical moment for Hong Kong. How will this end? This question is in the mind of all those who care about the future of Hong Kong. It is also hitting headlines and making “cover stories” in British media. Our answer to this question is firm and clear: We hope this will end in an orderly way. In the meantime, we are fully prepared for the worst. So how will this end in an orderly way? I think the following four points are extremely important.
第一，坚决支持香港特区政府止暴制乱、恢复秩序。希望广大香港市民，特别是一些不明真相的年轻人，认清当前香港局势，珍惜香港回归后来之不易的良好发展局面，顾全大局，团结一致，坚定不移挺特首、挺政府，守护香港的法治与正义，维护祖国统一和香港繁荣稳定。希望香港各界人士不要被反对势力所利用和裹挟，要向一切暴力行径大声“说不”，要向一切践踏法治的行径坚决“说不”，坚定支持特区政府依法施政，坚定支持香港警方严正执法。
First, the priority now is to support the SAR Government in ending violence and restoring order. I hope that Hong Kong people, especially the young people who have been led astray, would have a clear understanding of the current situation in Hong Kong and cherish the sound development of Hong Kong after the handover, which has not come by easily. I hope they will keep the big picture in mind, rally behind the Chief Executive and the SAR Government, uphold rule of law and justice in Hong Kong, and safeguard national unification as well as Hong Kong’s prosperity and stability. Hong Kong people from all walks of life must refuse to be used or coerced by the radical forces. They should say “no” to all violence and lawlessness. They should support the SAR Government in governing Hong Kong in accordance with law, and support the Hong Kong police in strict and rigorous enforcement.
第二，坚决依法严惩暴力犯罪分子。有法必依、违法必究是任何一个法治社会的基本要求。暴力就是暴力，违法就是违法，这不会因为暴力违法分子打着什么幌子就发生变化。只要是违法行为，无论怎么粉饰，都要受到法律的制裁；只要参与暴力犯罪活动，无论是谁，都要追究其法律责任。试问，英国会允许极端激进分子冲击议会、破坏议会设施而逍遥法外吗？英国会允许用致命武器袭击警察、烧毁警署而不受惩罚吗？英国会允许暴徒打着所谓民主的幌子占领机场、堵塞交通、破坏社会秩序、威胁民众生命财产安全吗？这些行为在英国难道不构成违法犯罪吗？姑息违法，就是亵渎正义；纵容暴力，就是践踏法治。任何一个法治国家，任何一个负责任的政府，都不会对上述暴力行径坐视不管。中国中央政府坚定支持特区政府和香港警方严正执法、果断执法，尽快将违法分子绳之以法、严惩不贷，依法维护香港法治环境和社会秩序。
Second, the violent offenders must be brought to justice in accordance with law. It is the basic requirement of the rule of law that all laws must be observed and all offenders must be held accountable. The violent and lawless perpetrators must be brought to justice no matter who they are or however hard they try to whitewash their actions. If anyone in this country questions this point, let me ask them this: Would the UK allow extremists to storm the Palace of Westminster or damage its facilities, and get away with it? Would the UK give permission for attacking police officers with lethal weapons or set fire to the police station without any punishment? Would the UK allow so-called pro-democracy rioters to occupy the airport, obstruct traffic, disturb social order or threaten the safety of people’s life and property? Aren’t all these regarded as crimes in the UK?
Indulging lawlessness is tantamount to blaspheming against justice. Conniving in violence is tantamount to trampling on the rule of law. No country under the rule of law, no responsible government, would sit by and watch as such violence rages on. The Central Government of China firmly supports the SAR Government and Hong Kong police in strict, rigorous and decisive enforcement, so as to bring the offenders to justice as soon as possible and uphold the rule of law and social order in Hong Kong.
第三，外部势力停止干预香港事务。有诸多证据显示，香港局势恶化到今天的地步，与外部势力介入与煽风点火是分不开的。一些西方国家政客和机构明里暗里为暴力激进分子提供各种支持，为他们撑腰打气，甚至干扰香港司法独立，阻碍香港警方将暴力犯罪分子绳之以法。我想重申，香港是中国的香港，香港事务绝不容外国插手。我们奉劝那些外国势力，尊重中国主权和安全，立即停止以任何方式干预香港事务和中国内政，立即停止纵容暴力犯罪，不要误判形势，在错误的路上越走越远，否则必将搬起石头砸自己的脚。
Third, foreign forces must stop interfering in Hong Kong’s affairs. Evidence shows that the situation in Hong Kong would not have deteriorated so much had it not been for the interference and incitement of foreign forces. Some Western politicians and organizations have publicly or covertly given various types of support to the violent radicals, and tried to interfere in the judicial independence of Hong Kong and obstruct Hong Kong police from bringing the violent offenders to justice.
I want to reiterate here that Hong Kong is part of China; no foreign country should interfere in Hong Kong affairs. We urge those foreign forces to respect China’s sovereignty and security, immediately stop interfering in Hong Kong affairs, stop interfering in China’s internal affairs, and stop conniving in violent offences. They should not misjudge the situation and go down the wrong path. Otherwise, they will “lift the stone only to drop it on their own feet”.
第四，媒体承担起应有的社会责任。香港事态发生以来，西方媒体扮演了十分不光彩的角色，不仅没有公正客观报道，反而混淆是非、颠倒黑白、误导公众：连篇累牍地渲染所谓“和平示威权利”，却对极端暴力分子破坏社会秩序、袭警伤人的违法犯罪行为熟视无睹，对支持特区政府、守护香港法治正义声音更是鲜有见报；将破坏香港法治、为非作歹的暴徒美化为“支持民主的人士”，却将特区政府和警队维护香港法治、保护市民生命财产安全的正当合法举措恶意污蔑为“镇压”。正是这些媒体的“选择性失声”和“歪曲性报道”，使错误舆论大行其道，误导了许多不明真相的民众特别是香港年轻人。可以说，西方媒体对香港今天的局面负有不可推卸的责任！我真诚地希望西方媒体反思自己行为的社会影响，承担起应有的社会责任，公正客观地报道香港局势，不要再为极端暴力分子说项，不要再给香港乱局火上加油，为平稳、有序结束香港乱局营造良好的舆论环境。为了帮助各位理解我说的第四点，我们制作了一个短片，让大家看一看在西方媒体看不到的画面，听一听在西方媒体听不到的声音。
　Fourth, the media must shoulder due social responsibilities. Since what happened in Hong Kong, I have to say, the Western media have failed to play a credible role. Instead of reporting the situation in a just and objective manner, they have confused right and wrong, given unbalanced account and misled the public. There has been massive coverage on so-called “right to peaceful protest” but few reports on the violent offences by the extreme radicals such as disruption of social order, attacks on police officers and injuries to bystanders. There has not been a word about the extensive public support for the SAR Government and for restoring law and order in Hong Kong. The lawless and violent offenders who undermine rule of law are whitewashed and named “pro-democracy activists” in media reports. But the legitimate law enforcement measures of the SAR Government and the police to uphold law and order and protect life and property of the people are labeled “repression”.
Such selective reporting and distortion have resulted in the prevalence of wrong information and have misled the public, especially young people in Hong Kong. It is fair to say that Western media have inescapable responsibility for the current situation in Hong Kong!
I sincerely hope that Western media would reflect on the social impact of their reporting, shoulder due social responsibilities, and report the situation in Hong Kong in a just and objective manner. I hope they would stop speaking up for the extreme violent offenders, refrain from pouring oil over the flame in Hong Kong, and foster a sound environment of public opinion so that law and order could be restored in Hong Kong.
To help you understand the fourth point that I have just made, I would like to show a short video clip, so that you could see some scenes and hear some voices that are absent in Western media.
“治则兴，乱则衰”。这句中国古训对今天的香港再适用不过。目前，有30多万英国公民在香港工作和生活，300多家英国公司在香港投资兴业。香港保持繁荣稳定，不仅符合中国的利益，也符合包括英国在内的各国共同利益。我衷心希望，英国各界有识之士认清大局，多做有利于香港繁荣稳定的事，抵制和反对任何干涉香港事务、破坏香港法治的言行。我坚信，在中国中央政府的大力支持下，在香港特区政府和林郑月娥行政长官的带领下，香港社会一定能够尽快止暴制乱，尽早恢复正常秩序，使香港这颗东方明珠重放光彩。
下面，我愿回答大家提问。
“Order fosters prosperity while unrest brews regress.” Given what is happening in Hong Kong, this ancient Chinese teaching cannot be more relevant.
It is in the interests of both China and the international community including the UK to have a prosperous and stable Hong Kong, where over three hundred thousand British citizens live and work, and where three hundred British companies are doing business.
I sincerely hope that people from all walks of life in the UK will have a clear understanding of the big picture, act in the interest of Hong Kong’s prosperity and stability, and refrain from saying or doing anything that interferes in Hong Kong’s affairs or undermines rule of law in Hong Kong. I am confident that with the support of the Central Government of China and under the leadership of the SAR Government and Chief Executive Carrie Lam, Hong Kong will bring violence to an end and restore law and order at an early date. Hong Kong, the “oriental pearl”, will once again shine brightly.
Now I would like to take your questions.
彭博社记者：我注意到视频里一位香港官员表示香港警察从未打出真正枪弹。社交媒体上传播的视频显示，中国军队正在香港之外进行反恐演习，如果军队派往香港，是否将被授权使用真枪实弹？
Bloomberg: I noticed that there was one moment in the clip when one of the speakers pointed out that Hong Kong police were not using live ammunition. There have been armed personnel carriers and troops, shown on social media and TV, just outside Hong Kong. If they were to be deployed at some point as you suggest is possible, would they use live ammunition? Would they be entitled to use it?
刘大使：我想这样回答你的问题。香港的形势十分严峻，但我们对特区政府和行政长官处理和平息局势、恢复秩序有充分信任和信心。正如我在开场白中所说，如果香港局势进一步恶化、出现特区政府不能控制的动乱，中国中央政府绝不会坐视不管。中国政府有足够多的办法和足够强大的力量迅速平息动乱。
Ambassador: I would answer your question in this way. I think the Hong Kong situation is at a very critical moment. But we have full trust and confidence in the Chief Executive and the Government of Hong Kong Special Administration Region in handling the situation and bringing it to an end in an orderly way. As I said in my opening remarks, if the situation deteriorates further into unrest uncontrollable for the SAR Government, the Central Government will not sit by and watch. We have enough solutions and enough power to put it to an end and to quell the unrest swiftly.
CNN记者：特朗普总统已表示希与习近平主席讨论香港问题。中方是否已正式回应其提议？如习主席同意与特见面，将有助于缓解香港当前形势吗？
CNN: We have a message from President Trump saying that he is willing to discuss with President Xi Jinping on this situation. Has there been any response yet to this suggestion? If it is being considered, will it help to resolve the situation?
刘大使：我不认为特朗普总统已正式提出要与习近平主席会面，他应该是在推特发文提到香港形势。我们可以讨论香港问题，但最重要的是，香港事务是中国内政，中方坚决反对任何外部干涉，包括一些外国组织为极端暴力行为提供资金支持，一些美国议员提出所谓关于香港的法案，违背国际关系准则。我特别要强调的是，中方坚决反对任何外国政府官员给特区政府打电话施压，公开支持暴力分子。
Ambassador: I don’t think President Trump proposed formally to have a meeting with President Xi Jinping. I thought he tweeted to express his views on Hong Kong. Hong Kong is a constant subject between China and Western governments, including the UK and the United States. We are open to discussion. But the important thing to remember is that we do not accept any interference in Hong Kong’s internal affairs. We believe it is purely China’s internal affairs. We strongly oppose any foreign intervention, including foreign organizations giving financial support and some Congressmen proposing so-called Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act. Especially, we are opposed to foreign officials making telephone calls to the SAR Government and exerting pressures by publicly showing their support for the rioters. We strongly oppose this.
路透社记者：你刚才提到一些抗议示威活动开始出现恐怖主义的苗头，你能否解释构成恐怖主义行为的红线和转折点是什么？依照中国法律，这是否将成为中方向香港派军队的合法依据？
Reuters: I noticed that you said in your opening remarks that the behaviors of some of the protesters are showing some signs of terrorism. I wonder whether you’d mind explaining to us what would be the red line or turning point over which they would constitute terrorism? Would that then provide, under Chinese Law, a legal justification for the deployment of Chinese forces in Hong Kong?
刘大使：刚才视频所显示的以及我们最近看到的在香港发生的残暴恶劣行为，特别是香港机场事件，被不少媒体称为恐怖主义行为。暴徒攻击警察、损毁设施，甚至袭击记者，你们的同行、一位中国记者就受到围攻。对此，中国记者协会表示强烈谴责。这些都是恐怖主义的苗头，我称其为“新极端主义”。如任其发展，将演变为恐怖主义。我们相信特区政府和香港警方现在能掌控局面。如局势进一步恶化，特区政府难以控制，中央政府绝对不会坐视不管。
Ambassador: From both the video clip and also what is happening in Hong Kong, especially what is happening at the airport, the atrocities have already drawn worldwide condemnation. Many media regarded them as terrorist acts. They are no different from terrorism. They are attacking the police, attacking the travelers, even attacking journalists, one of your colleagues from China. We heard strong condemnation from the Chinese Association of Journalists on this kind of attacks. So we call it a sign of terrorism and near-terrorism. I would call it neo-extremism. If it goes further, it might become the neo-terrorism or terrorist action.
Even if it becomes a terrorist action, I still hope that Hong Kong SAR Government and Hong Kong police can handle the situation. What I am saying is that if the situation deteriorates into unrest uncontrollable for Hong Kong SAR Government, the Central Government will certainly not sit by and watch.
今日俄罗斯电视台记者：根据美国媒体报道，美国国家民主基金会（NED）为部分香港抗议示威者提供了资金支持。中方是否掌握美国在背后策划香港抗议示威活动的证据？
Russia Today: According to reports, the National Endowment for Democracy in the US has been funding some of Hong Kong protesters. Has Beijing concluded that the Hong Kong protests are entirely a US plot to destabilize China?
刘大使：你已经部分回答了这个问题。我们相信这些极端暴力活动都有幕后“黑手”，一些外国势力和组织为其提供资金和其他支持，甚至有外国官员会见“港独”分子。他们出于不可告人的政治目的，就是要把香港变成中国的麻烦，阻止中国发展繁荣。因此，为了使香港乱局尽快平息，外部势力应立即停止干预香港事务，停止你刚才提到的那些行为。
Ambassador: I think you’ve already partly answered the question. We believe there is a “dark hand” behind the radical movement. As I mentioned in my opening statement, some foreign forces including foreign organizations provided financial support and moral support to the radical movement. Especially, some foreign officials met the leaders of Hong Kong independence group. This clearly showed their intention is to make Hong Kong a problem for China, to use Hong Kong to contain China, to prevent China from developing smoothly and to prevent China from becoming a prosperous country. That’s for sure! That’s why I am saying, in order to end the chaotic situation in Hong Kong in an orderly way, it is very important for the foreign forces to stop interfering further in Hong Kong’s affairs, including the activities you have mentioned.
《泰晤士报》记者：英国议会下院外交委员会主席图根哈特表示，英国应考虑给予香港居民英国国籍，中方对此如何评论？
The Times: I wonder if you could respond to the suggestion of the Chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee that full British citizenship be extended to all Hong Kong citizens. Would China regard that as a provocation?
刘大使：我认为，英国的某些政客，虽然身体已经进入21世纪，但脑袋却还停留在殖民时代。他们依然将香港当作是大英帝国或英国的一部分。他们应该改变思维模式，摆正自己的位置，认识到香港是中国的一部分，而不是英国的一部分。
Ambassador: I think some politicians in this country, although their bodies live in the 21st century, their heads are still in the colonial days. I think some of them still regard Hong Kong as a part of the British Empire. They treat Hong Kong as a part of UK. That's the problem. I think they really have to change their mindsets, put them in the proper position, and regard Hong Kong as a part of China, not a part of UK.
独立电视台记者：你刚才说，中国已经做好最坏的打算，你能澄清一下这究竟意味着什么？有人看到军队和武警在深圳集结，这是否意味着采用军事手段可能性上升？
ITV: You said earlier that Beijing is fully prepared for the worst. Can you clarify exactly what that means? And also people see some satellite images of troops and tanks assembled in Shenzhen. Is this a means of intimidation or is Chinese military action a very real possibility, or even imminence?
刘大使：我刚才在开场白中已经回答了你的问题。采取果断措施是必要的。我已经说了，如果局势进一步恶化，变得无法平息、不能控制，中国中央政府不会坐视不管。中央政府有足够多的手段、足够强大的力量平息事态。如果你认真听我的讲话，就能找到答案。
Ambassador: In my opening statement, I have already answered this question. The first part is about the kind of situation where resolute solutions should be needed. I said, if the situation deteriorates further into unrest controllable for the Hong Kong SAR Government, then the Central Government will not sit by and watch. And we have enough solutions and enough power to quell the unrest swiftly. If you listen to my remarks word by word, you would get the answer to your question.
独立电视台记者：能不能详细解释一下“平息”（quell）一词的含义是什么？
ITV: What exactly does “quell” mean though? How would you quell the protests?
刘大使：平息就是终止目前的事态。
Ambassador: To put this to an end. Thank you.
天空电视台记者：你刚才说北京有力量在必要的情况下平息香港的事态，能否说明在何种情况下会派军队赴香港？他们将如何应对普通民众的抗议？在上次记者会上，你说英中关系因为英外交大臣的言论受到损害。这次记者会，我们有了新首相。英中关系是改善了、恢复正常了还是继续受到损害？你有什么话要对英国首相说？
Sky News: You talked about how Beijing has the power to deal with this problem. Could you give us a sense of the scale of forces you have available to deploy into Hong Kong if necessary? Are they properly trained to deal with what is a civilian uprising, civilian unrest, as opposed to the military problem? And then secondly if I may, this is your second press conference. Last time, we had a different prime minister. Now we've got Prime Minister Boris Johnson. Last time, you said the relations between Beijing and London had been damaged by, for example, our then Foreign Secretary's comments on Hong Kong. What are the relations like now? Are the relations better or maybe healed between the UK and China? Or are they still being damaged? What is your message for the Prime Minister?
刘大使：关于第一个问题，我想我已经回答了。首先，当前我们仍然相信香港特区政府有能力处理好香港事务，特首是很有能力的领导人，赢得了广泛尊敬和支持。当前，他们对事态处理得当，值得信任。我们有信心、有决心、也有能力迅速平息事态。关于第二个问题，中方当然希望中英关系能够进一步发展，良好的关系符合中英双方共同利益。媒体上关于英国政局评论很多，我倒是不希望你们那么快再换首相，否则下次记者会可能又要把新首相拿出来说事了（众人笑）。约翰逊首相是我任驻英大使以来打交道的第四位首相，我们对推进双边关系抱有期待，希望双方沿着习近平主席访英时开启的中英关系“黄金时代”大方向继续前进。但良好的双边关系必须建立在相互尊重主权和领土完整、互不干涉内政的基础上，这是我们在建交联合公报中就已明确的原则。只要坚持这些原则，双边关系就能顺利发展，反之就会遇到困难。希望英国新政府在香港问题上坚持原则、妥善处理，即香港是中国的领土，香港关乎中国主权，香港是中国的内政。
Ambassador: To answer your first question, I think I have already answered your question. First, this is a hypothetical question. Currently, we still believe that Hong Kong SAR Government is capable of doing their business. The Chief Executive is a very capable leader in Hong Kong, enjoying broad respect and support. So, at this moment, I think they are still handling it very well. We have full trust. So we haven't got to the point to discuss about what scale of power and solutions we are going to use. I have answered this question. We are confident and we have enough solutions and enough power to put this to an end swiftly.
With regard to your second question, we certainly would like to see relations develop further, because we believe it's in the interests of China and the UK to have a sound relationship. Of course I didn’t expect you have a new prime minister so soon. So I need to be careful with my press conference. I do not hope that at the next press conference we will talk about another prime minister, but you do not take this seriously.
This is the fourth prime minister I'm going to work with. We have expectations. We do hope relationship will move along the direction of Golden Era set by President Xi during his state visit. But good relationship has to be based on the basic principles of mutual respect for sovereignty and territory integrity, and non-interference in the internal affairs of each other. It was enshrined in the Joint Communiqué on establishing diplomatic relations between our two countries. As long as these principles are followed, the relationship will move forward. When these principles are violated, the relationship will suffer setbacks. So we do hope the new administration will handle with great caution the Hong Kong issue, which is about China's sovereignty, which is about China's territorial integrity, which is about China's internal affairs. Thank you.
《卫报》记者：你说的“不能控制”是什么意思？如何确定事态处于不能控制的状态？
Guardian: What is your definition of “uncontrollable”? What would you be looking for to define when the situation has become uncontrollable?
刘大使：“不能控制”就是失去控制，这个意思很清楚，大概不需要查《牛津大辞典》。我们希望事态处于香港特区政府和特首管控之下。我们相信当前局势仍是可控的。
Ambassador: Do you think we have to consult the Oxford English Dictionary for what “uncontrollable” is? Uncontrollable is out of control. We do hope that the situation will still be under control of the SAR Government and the Chief Executive. I believe the current situation is still under control.
BBC广播四台记者：第一个问题，你是否承认大多数抗议者并不是“暴力分子”、“极端分子”，而是普通市民？他们有律师，有公务员，他们对中国政府感到很失望，要求享有更多言论自由，支持普选。你能否解释中国政府为何反对普选？第二个问题，中国是否仍然遵守《中英联合声明》？
BBC Radio 4: Ambassador, you painted the protesters as violent and as extremists. Can I ask you whether you would acknowledge that for every violent or extremist protester, there are many ordinary citizens in Hong Kong, lawyers and civil servants, who are deeply disappointed by what is happening on the Chinese government side, and to support the idea that people having more say in their own administration, and to support the fifth demand of protesters, the universal suffrage? Would you acknowledge that there are many people who are not violent or extremist protesters? Can you remind us and the people of Hong Kong why China finds it so objectionable to give them universal suffrage? If I may ask a second question, does China still regard the Joint Declaration signed with Britain in 1984 as applying and constraining its behavior in Hong Kong?
刘大使：埃文，距离上次接受你采访已经很长时间了，很高兴再次见到你。你第一个问题是关于示威者。我们当然会区分普通示威者和极端暴力犯罪分子。一小撮极端暴力分子不能代表大多数游行示威者，许多参加示威的人是被蒙蔽的，一些香港和西方媒体误导了民众。每个社会都有自己的问题。香港回归中国以来，取得巨大发展成就，“一国两制”取得巨大成功，但仍有许多需要改进的地方，比如年轻人的发展问题。香港经济存在一些问题，过于倚重金融服务业和房地产业，年轻人上升通道有限，他们有抱怨，我们都理解。中央政府和特区政府非常重视这些问题，正采取切实措施予以解决。粤港澳大湾区建设将给年轻人带来更多发展机会。如果把香港和一河之隔的深圳做一个比较，就会发现很大差别。深圳在30年间从一个小渔村发展成为一个充满生机和活力的大都市，成为年轻人创业之地，拥有诸如华为、腾讯、大疆等众多高新科技公司。在香港却没有一家像这样的世界一流科技企业。特区政府正在想办法解决这些问题。我们应注重发展问题，但抗议示威不是解决问题之道，社会混乱只会让年轻人蒙受更多损失。我们关注年轻人的发展，会将受蒙蔽而走上歧途的年轻人与少数极端暴力犯罪分子区分开来。
Ambassador: Evan, I haven’t seen you for quite a while since I last went on your program. Your first question is about the demonstrators. We certainly have acknowledged the difference between the young people and the radical violent offenders. A few radicals do not represent the majority of the demonstrators. The majority of them have been misled. I think Hong Kong media has responsibility and Western media has responsibility.
There are some complaints. In any society you have all kinds of complaints. Since Hong Kong’s handover, enormous achievements and progress have been made under “One Country, Two Systems”. But there is still a lot of room for improvement, like how young people would advance their career. There are many problems in Hong Kong economy. Hong Kong economy has depended too much on financial services and real estate, which offers little opportunities to young people. So they have complaints. We understand. The Central Government and SAR Government have tried very hard to address these problems. We have launched the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area development project. I don’t know how many of you know this, but I do not have time to elaborate in details. That will give Hong Kong young people more opportunities.
If you compare Hong Kong with Shenzhen across the river, it’s quite a contrast. In 30 years time, Shenzhen has been transformed into a dynamic city full of vigor, many young people, a lot of high-tech and new technology companies like Huawei, Tencent, Dajiang, many top world-class companies. What world-class high-tech companies can you find in Hong Kong? To address these problems, we have to focus on development. Demonstrations offer no solution. Chaotic situations would only make young people suffer more. We will certainly address the concerns of the young people. We certainly understand the difference between the young people who have been misled, who have been led astray as I said, and those radical violent offenders.
关于《联合声明》，人们经常把“一国两制”和《联合声明》混为一谈。《联合声明》已经完成了历史使命，即将香港归还中国以及在1984至1997的13年间确保香港在回归前平稳过渡。《联合声明》提到“一国两制”，但“一国两制”是中国政府单方面的政策宣示，写入《基本法》。因此，我们说中方坚定遵守《基本法》和“一国两制”50年不变，而不是遵守《联合声明》50年不变。
Your second question is about the Joint Declaration. I think people often confuse “One Country, Two Systems” with the Joint Declaration. Joint Declaration has completed its mission. Its main mission was to ensure a smooth handover of Hong Kong from UK to China. And it was also its mission to ensure a 13-year smooth transition period between 1984, when China and UK agreed on the handover and 1997. And that was its main mission. Yes, the Joint Declaration mentioned “One Country, Two Systems”. But that is a national policy unilaterally announced by the Chinese Government. It is incorporated in the Basic Law of Hong Kong. So when we say China is committed to the Basic Law and “One Country, Two Systems” for 50 years, we are not saying we are committed to the Joint Declaration for 50 years.
关于普选，中央政府支持香港实行普选，这是香港政制改革的终极目标。但改革必须有序推进，必须符合香港的实际情况，依法循序渐进地推进。2015年，如果不是反对派的抵制，香港立法会就已经通过关于普选的立法了，结果实行普选的进程被迫推迟。西方普通民众对此了解甚少。
About universal suffrage, the Central Government is committed to universal suffrage. We believe this is the final aim of political reform in Hong Kong. But it has to proceed in an orderly way and it has to suit the conditions of Hong Kong. If it had not been for the opposition in Hong Kong in 2015, the Legislative Council would have passed a law on universal suffrage. They were not happy with this law, so they blocked it. They killed this law and postponed the process. There are so many things that are not known by the Western public. The government is fully committed to universal suffrage. But it has to be carried out in an orderly and gradual way in accordance with law.
BBC外事记者：第一个问题，你提到中国内部事务不容外国干涉，如果英国政府要求就香港面临的危机进行对话，是外国干涉吗？关于“修例”，除了搁置还有其他解决办法吗？中方是否准备撤销“修例”？第二个问题，你提到中国将不惜一切代价平息抗议活动……
BBC Diplomatic Correspondent: You talked about there being no place for foreign interference in China’s internal affairs. Does that mean the present British government is interfering in the internal affairs when it calls for dialogue to end the crisis in Hong Kong？Is one of the solutions that you would examine carefully to find a way through this to move beyond mere suspension of the extradition law? Would you be prepared to move to full withdrawal, one of the basic points raised by the protesters? My second question is about the potential use of force. You said China will use whatever means necessary to quell the protests
刘大使：不是抗议，是动乱。
Ambassador: Not the protest. To quell the unrest.
BBC外事记者：如果派出军队，是否意味着“一国两制”、香港“高度自治”遭到破坏？会对香港经济造成巨大伤害吗？
BBC Diplomatic correspondent: If you were to use the Chinese army in Hong Kong, do you accept that it would have the effect of destroying the “two systems” and Hong Kong’s autonomy, and do great damage to China because it will suffer economically and in trade as a result?
刘大使：你实际上是提了三个问题，我从最后一个问题回答。我说过，我们有足够多的办法和足够强大的力量结束香港事态。我们这样做才是真正在捍卫“一国两制”。一些极端势力要求“香港独立”，他们企图利用香港向内地渗透，破坏内地的社会主义制度，这是在破坏“一国两制”。我们应该知道，“一国”的意思是香港是中国的一部分，中国对香港拥有主权。“一国”是“两制”的前提，没有“一国”，“两制”就无从谈起，二者是有机统一的整体，不能只强调一个，削弱另一个。中国要做的正是为了维护“一国两制”。
Ambassador: I think you asked three questions and I am trying to remember them all. Maybe the last question first. As I said, we have enough solutions and enough power to put this to an end swiftly. By doing this, we are exactly defending “One Country, Two Systems”. Some of the radical forces call for independence of Hong Kong. They want to use Hong Kong to infiltrate into the mainland, to interrupt the socialist system in the mainland. So in both ways, they undermine “One Country, Two Systems”. When we talk about “One Country, Two Systems”, people have to be aware that it’s a complete whole. “One country” means that Hong Kong is part of China and China has sovereignty over Hong Kong. “One country” is the precondition for “two systems”. Without “one country”, there will be no “two systems”. So, the two are one complete whole. We can’t emphasize one at the expense of the other. I think what China is going to do -- to put the situation under control -- is exactly for “One Country, Two Systems”.
关于英国外交大臣打电话干涉香港内部事务，这不是一般的打电话讨论问题，而是用打电话向特区政府施压。英方说对警察使用暴力表示关切，谴责双方的暴力，这种“各打五十大板”的做法是混淆是非。指责正确的，就是支持错误的。这里的关键是电话谈话内容是不是干涉内政。英国政要经常访问香港，我们对此不持异议。但如果英方言论是在干预香港司法独立，比如之前一些政客要求香港特区政府“不能惩罚暴力违法者”，这就是干扰破坏香港的司法独立，是完全不能接受的。
About the telephone conversation, as I said, we are open to discussions on Hong Kong. But the important thing is that you can’t use telephone conversation to exert pressure on the SAR Government. For instance, you are saying that you are concerned about the police’s excessive use of force and you condemn the violence on both sides. That is not fair. You can’t give a 50-50. You confuse right and wrong. If you accuse the right things, you certainly support the wrong things. The important thing is the nature of the conversation, whether it is an intervention or not. British politicians are visiting Hong Kong all the time. We show no objection to them. But if you make a comment to interfere in the judicial independence of Hong Kong, you are trying to obstruct it. Just like some politicians said before that one cannot punish those radicals and violent offenders. It just obstructs the legal system in Hong Kong. That can not be accepted at all.
我们已经对英国政客的言论表达了关切。英方要改变思维方式，要有大局观，香港保持稳定和繁荣不仅有利于香港和中国内地，也符合英国的利益。
We expressed our concerns about some of the comments by British politicians. I really hope that they change their mindset and have a big picture in mind about the prosperity and stability in Hong Kong and broad interests of the UK. A prosperous and stable Hong Kong is really in the interest of the UK, not only in the interest of Hong Kong and China.
关于“修例”问题，“修例”已经暂缓，下一步将由香港特区政府来决定，林郑特首已承诺要与社会各界进行更多沟通和讨论。我在上次记者会上说过，这是一个好条例，完善香港的法律制度，符合香港的利益，将香港变为“正义天堂”而非“避罪天堂”。特区政府需要时间解释“修例”符合香港利益，从而说服香港公众，争取公众理解。
About the withdrawal of the bill. You know the bill has been suspended by the SAR Government. Whether it will be withdrawn is up to the Hong Kong SAR Government to decide. The Chief Executive promised to have further communication and discussions with the public and various sectors in Hong Kong. From the very beginning in my first press conference, I said this is a good bill. It serves the interest of Hong Kong. It will make Hong Kong a safe haven of justice rather than a safe haven of fugitives. I think the intension is to improve the legal system of Hong Kong but it was not well understood. So it might take time for the SAR Government to explain their position, to convince the public that it is in Hong Kong’s interest to pass this bill.
BBC记者：刚才的短片包含一名记者在香港机场被抗议者围攻的画面。另外一个人也在机场受到抗议者围攻，但他是来自深圳的便衣警察。请问目前有多少内地警务人员在香港活动？
BBC News Night: In the video, you showed a journalist at the airport surrounded by protesters. You didn’t show the other guy surrounded by protesters who turned out to be a law enforcement official from Shenzhen not wearing uniform. How many other such mainland law enforcement officials are currently operating in Hong Kong?
刘大使：我了解的情况是，昨天一个深圳居民在机场为他的朋友送行，遭到了暴乱分子的围攻。另一个遭围攻的是中国内地记者，有人声称他是个警察，把他绑起来，但其实他是个有名、有姓、有注册的记者。
Ambassador: Your information is not what I know. Yesterday, an ordinary traveler was round up by the rioters at the airport. He was from Shenzhen and he came to the airport to see off a friend. The other one was a journalist from China, who was tied up. Some people regarded him as a police, but he turned out to be a journalist who has a name, a registered journalist.
CGTN记者：我的第一个问题是，随着抗议者的暴力行为升级，香港警方的应对措施也不可避免地升级。近日来，香港警队遭遇袭击，如果放在其他地方，同样的袭警行为会受到严厉处理。为什么媒体，特别是西方媒体仍然严厉批评香港警队？第二个问题，昨天英国企业得到警告，要评估香港目前存在的投资风险，而且有28个国家已经针对香港发出了不同程度的旅行警告，这是否意味着香港经济面临一个转折点？
CGTN: My first question is that, as the violence escalates, the Hong Kong police response would escalate inevitably. We all know what Hong Kong police have experienced these days? In other countries, it equals to aggravated assault which will be dealt with seriously. But why they are still the target of blames in some of the media, in most of the Western media, even when they are so restrained? My second question is that yesterday, some British companies were warned to evaluate the risks to investment in Hong Kong. More than 28 countries have been noted to issue different levels of warnings to travelers to Hong Kong. Analysts say that currently this is a kind of the turning point for Hong Kong’s economy. So what is your view?
刘大使：关于香港警察的履职表现，我认为你说得很对，他们展现了极大的克制，超过很多其他国家的警察。他们非常专业，赢得包括美国、加拿大、法国等许多国家同行的钦佩。短片中看到的情况，如果发生在西方国家，警方处理时会使用更多强制手段，但香港警队保持了克制。这让我想起不久前的6月，英国环保组织申请在希思罗机场抗议，警方警告其如果这么做将面临终身监禁，敦促其三思而行。我们也都知道英国警方是如何处理伦敦骚乱的，使用了何等强制手段。
Ambassador: I think you are absolutely right in talking about the behavior of Hong Kong police. I think they exercise their duty with great restraint, more so than in many other countries. They are very professional and have won praise from many countries, including the US, Canada, France. You know, if things like this happen in the Western countries, the police would deal with them with much more force.
That reminds me of something just a few months ago, in June. When the Extinction Rebellion applied to put up a demonstration in Heathrow Airport, they were warned by the British police that those involved would face a life sentence and urged to reconsider. We’ve all watched how the British police handled the riot in London. And I don’t need to remind you of what kind of force they used.
香港经济的确受到冲击，香港的国际形象和声誉受到损害，令人痛心。香港是个非常安全的城市，法治指数很高，根据2018年世界正义工程法治指数排名，香港排名16，领先美国3位，美国排名19。这还只是法治指数，在安全指数方面，香港与西方城市相比更是遥遥领先。的确，我们都看到恒生指数下跌9%，港元汇率等也下滑了，非常令人痛心。正如我在开场白中所说，我认为香港民众应当珍惜来之不易的发展成果，我希望并期待香港回归理性。昨天我也听到一些来自香港工商界的声音，他们沉默了一段时间，但现在开始发声了，他们认识到这样的动乱将给香港这座城市、给香港的繁荣稳定造成多么大的损害。
On the Hong Kong economy. Yes, it suffered. What is happening in Hong Kong really damaged the international image and reputation of Hong Kong. It’s very sad. Hong Kong is a very safe place. Its rule of law rating is very high. In terms of Project of Justice index, it’s even three steps higher than the United States last year. It ranked 16th while the United States ranked 19th. I’m talking about law and order, not safety. On safety, Hong Kong will be much safer than the other Western cities.
Of course, we all read that Hang Seng stock falls 9% and Hong Kong dollar falls. Many things fall. It’s very sad. I think people, as I said in my opening remarks, should treasure the hard-won development of Hong Kong. I do hope common sense will prevail in Hong Kong. I just heard many statements yesterday by the business leaders. They’ve kept quiet for some time, but now they spoke out. They realized what kind of damage this chaos in Hong Kong will do to the city, to the prosperity and stability of Hong Kong.
路透社记者：感谢大使给我第二次提问机会。你刚才回答BBC记者提问时提到，香港特区政府有权决定是否暂缓或撤销“修例”。可否明确一下，如果林郑月娥特首及其领导的香港特区政府决定撤销“修例”，中国中央政府会否同意？
Reuters: Thank you for taking a second question. Earlier when my colleague from the BBC asked about the extradition bill, you said it’s up to the Hong Kong SAR Government to decide whether it will be withdrawn or not. And you immediately added that you think it a good bill and it wasn’t fully explained and should be explained further. Just to be completely clear, if Carrie Lam and the Hong Kong SAR Government decided to withdraw the bill fully, would the Central Government of China allow them to do so?
刘大使：很多人以为“修例”是特区政府按中央政府指令或授意所为，实际情况不是这样。“修例”完全是由特区政府发起的，林郑特首本人也在多个场合表示，她从未收到中央政府任何相关“指令”。香港特区政府已决定暂缓“修例”，我们对此表示尊重、理解和支持，希望英国媒体注意我用的这三个词。我认为中国中央政府将继续这么做。
Ambassador: At the very beginning, many people thought that this move is under the order or instruction from the Central Government. That was not true. This initiative is completely the decision of the Hong Kong administration. Chief Executive Carrie Lam spoke on many occasions that she received no order or instruction from the Central Government to launch this process. She decided to suspend it and we showed understanding, respect and support. So I hope you will keep in mind the three words I gave you: understanding, respect and support. And I think that we will continue to do this along the road.
今日俄罗斯电视台记者：自美国政府将华为公司列入“实体清单”，中美经贸摩擦逐步升级，你认为美方是否会将香港问题作为解决贸易问题的筹码？如果是这样，中方将如何应对，会否在香港问题上作出让步？
Russia Today: As you know the trade war with the US is continuing and Donald Trump has sought to use Huawei to put pressure on China. Do you think there is a chance that the US would do the same to Hong Kong, in terms of getting a fair world trade deal? How would Beijing respond?
刘大使：中美经贸磋商仍在继续，我对此持审慎乐观态度。中共中央政治局委员、中央外事工作委员会办公室主任杨洁篪日前访问纽约，会见了美国国务卿蓬佩奥，就包括贸易问题在内的中美关系交换了意见。中方不会在香港问题上牺牲原则，来换取与美方达成贸易协议。我们从不拿原则做交易。香港问题纯属中国内政，我们坚决反对任何外来干涉，不管这个干涉来自哪个国家。
Ambassador: The talks are still going on, and I personally feel cautiously optimistic about the future of the China-US trade relations. Member of the Political Bureau of the CPC Central Committee and Director of the Office of the Foreign Affairs Commission of the CPC Central Committee Yang Jiechi is in New York and had a talk with Secretary Pompeo. They had a very candid discussion on the bilateral relations, including trade issues.
On Hong Kong, China will never compromise its principles for a trade deal. We wouldn’t barter away our principles. It’s purely China’s internal affairs which brook no foreign intervention, no matter which country it is from.
彭博社记者：你提到当前乱局将损害香港经济和营商环境，我认为香港工商界赞同这一点，他们十分担心街头示威会削弱香港的国际金融中心地位。但他们中很多人也忧虑中国中央政府直接干预香港事务，比如派军队镇压所谓街头暴力。他们的一些关切是合理的。你认为中央政府出于维护香港繁荣稳定和国际地位的需要，今后会否创造更多与街头抗议者接触和对话的空间？
Bloomberg: The entire Hong Kong business community would agree with you when you said that the unrest has been very bad for the economy, bad for Hong Kong’s position as a global financial centre. And yet many would also argue that if the Chinese Central Government were to intervene directly, that could be even worse. In order to solve this, it will require some sort of engagement with the protesters whom you acknowledged are not all violent and many have some legitimate concerns. Do you not think that the position you laid out here, which is quite hard-line, should allow more space for engagement with the protesters, in the interest of, as you said, maintaining stability, economic well being and international image of Hong Kong?
刘大使：我要反问你一下：如果面临两种形势，一种是香港局势失控、持续动荡；一种是中央政府果断介入、终止动乱，哪一种符合工商界利益？我认为答案显然是后者。当然，这只是极端情况，并不是现实。我们希望香港事态平稳有序结束。这需要在广大爱国爱港人士坚定支持下，香港特区政府和香港警方严正执法、果断执法，尽快将违法分子绳之以法、严惩不贷，依法维护香港法治环境和社会秩序。这是香港的当务之急。
Ambassador: Let me ask you this. We are talking about an unpleasant situation. If Hong Kong’s situation becomes uncontrollable and unrest goes on and on, will it serve the interests of the business community in Hong Kong? Or the Central Government will intervene with a resolute solution and put an end to unrest as quickly as possible, will that serve their interests? I think the answer would be the latter.
But that’s an extreme situation. That is a situation we would not like to see. And we hope to see the situation end in an orderly way, which includes that the people should rally behind the Hong Kong SAR Government and rally behind the Chief Executive to support Hong Kong SAR Government to put this to an end, to bring the violence and law offenders to justice, and to restore order. That is the top priority of Hong Kong today.
BBC广播四台记者：感谢大使给我第二次提问的机会。我注意到你在刚才的答问中表示，对香港暴徒与和平抗议者要加以区分。你可否在此对香港市民明确一点：如果结束暴力，大家仍可继续进行和平抗议，不会遭受中国中央政府的干预，即中央干预只针对严重损害中国利益的暴力行径？
BBC: You draw a distinction between the violent protesters and nonviolent protesters. I just want to be clear. Can you unequivocally tell the people of Hong Kong that if the violence stops but peaceful protest continues, there is no way that the central Chinese authorities will intervene in the internal affairs of Hong Kong? It is only the violence that China will quell or stop.
刘大使：你不妨回忆一下我刚才的开场讲话：如果香港局势进一步恶化，出现香港特区政府不能控制的动乱，中国中央政府绝不会坐视不管。按照《基本法》规定，中国中央政府有足够多的办法、足够强大的力量迅速平息可能出现的各种动乱。目前香港局势是可控的，仍在香港特区政府有效管控下，不存在你谈的假设情况。
Ambassador: I hope you should go back to my opening statement. I said if the situation in Hong Kong deteriorates into unrest uncontrollable for the Hong Kong SAR Government, the Central Government would not sit by and watch. And we have enough solutions and power to quell the unrest swiftly. What you are talking about is a situation that is not happening. It is still under control of the Hong Kong SAR Government. So we do not need to talk about that part.
记者追问：如果和平示威一旦失控呢？
BBC Radio 4: It may go beyond control?
刘大使：这反映出你对有关问题缺乏了解，低估了香港特区政府和警方的能力。他们有准备、有能力妥善应对和平抗议示威。当然，前提是抗议示威必须是和平的、非暴力的。
Ambassador: That shows your lack of understanding of the situation. You have underestimated the capability of Hong Kong SAR Government and the Hong Kong police. They are fully prepared and equipped to handle peaceful demonstration -- but it has to be peaceful.
CNN记者：感谢大使也给我第二次提问的机会。你刚才反复提及中国中央政府仍对香港局势保持耐心，并强调你们有足够的办法和力量迅速平息事态。那么你认为在接下来的数周之内，香港特区政府能否使事态出现根本改观？或者你再举行一次记者会，继续回应外界关切？
CNN: You talked about how patient you’ve been right now, and you were suggesting that you have resources and solutions to quell it swiftly. What sort of timeline we are looking at? Let’s suppose by this time next week, do you think the Hong Kong SAR Government will be able to resolve the crisis by itself without the support of the Central Government? Or we will still be having this conversation next week?
刘大使：我在此重申，我们坚信在中国中央政府的大力支持下，在香港特区政府和林郑月娥行政长官的带领下，香港社会一定能够尽快止暴制乱，尽早恢复正常秩序。这样，我也就不需要再次举行记者会了。
Ambassador: As I said, we have full trust in the Hong Kong SAR Government. I hope they will put an end to it at an early date, as soon as possible. Maybe we do not need another press conference. We’ll see.
谢谢大家！
Thank you.

来源：天之聪口译

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